Rich Morris' Comics - YAFGC and The ComixBlog

OH MY GOD. That was so cool! a bit cheesy, but all worth it for the reveal at the end.

And the best line ever is officially: "Oh my lord. She's a cactus!" Wilf's great.

I'm thinking the mystery woman has to be the White Guardian. She's obviously using him as her intermediary.

The White Guardian would be interesting. And to me it would be much more of a surprise than the Time Lords returning. The whole trailer speech had me thinking of the window being opened for them.

Now I wonder how they will explain *how* the Time Lords returned...

Was it just me who found the episode a bit jarring? Weird? Not just because we saw John simm with tits and a dress or destroy a turkey. The episode just seemed a bit random and seemed to lack that epic scale most finale episodes seem to have at the time. Of course it was only setting up for the final episode so the new years episode may be better. I liked it, but was a little dissapointed.

If the woman is the White Guardian, and the Lord President is the Black Guardian, then the 10 Doctors' plotline will be screwed up! Nuuuuuu!!!

This episode was alright. Ending was epic. Ood were great. Wilf was great. Simm was... alright.

It just occurred to me that the "drums" the Master keeps hearing could be something the Time Lords put in his head when they resurrected him to fight in the war. I don't know why I never thought of that before. It would explain why previous incarnations of the Master didn't go around babbling about drums.
It seems clear to me that the Master will have something to do with the Time Lords' return. My theory is that in the same way that the ring was the Master's failsafe, so he was the High Council's failsafe. Which might explain the whole "craaazy Master" routine.

Those two things could even be related.

Then again, the Master claimed he'd heard the drums since he looked into the Untempered Schism. On the other hand, it could just be a false memory implanted by the Time Lords.

I was a bit underwhelmed I must admit, but it did it's job of setting things up well for the next episode. Again I must congratulate Wilf, the Doctor and the Vinvocci, and who couldn't help a little cheer when Obama showed up.

My first thought about Wilf's mystery woman was also White Guardian. After I got to thinking about it, I'm wondering if the narrator might have been the Valeyard? He's probably just supposed to be Lord President, but I thought Valeyard would be a nice twist.

I have to admit I didn't think the entire human race (give or take two specimens) would turn into the Master, though. I was thinking that he'd repopulate Gallifrey when he stepped into the machine (I was already convinced at that stage that the Time Lords would be returning, both from chatter I'd heard and the image of the narrator - his costume just looked Time Lord, somehow). I concur with jonathan that it will be interesting to see how that does get accomplished.

As to that, when the Doctor first heard the drums, I started to think (as JustAWanderer pointed out) that the Master is the seed of the Time Lords' resurrection. It makes a great deal of sense to me that they would have used him to assure their own survival.

Oh. One final note. I have to give props to Lucy! Way to go, girl! Bravery in the face of impossible odds, standing up to do what needs to be done to save the world/universe (even if it didn't work as planned) - that shows the kind of "spunk" that would make her a worthy Companion. Kudos.

Ever since "Army of Ghosts" / "Doomsday" I have had a theory re the Timelords. I've just sat on it till now, but have been longing to share it with someone. My theory won't matter one way or the other after "The End Of Time: Part Two" airs. I don't aspire to the creativeness of Russell T. Davis, and my idea would only be a spoiler if it matched his. Would anyone object to me posting it here? Sinead

I think you should go for it, Sinead. After all, wild fan speculation is part of this forum, isn't it?

Bear with me as I ramble on a little . I always wondered since the end of season 4 where Davros and the full might of the Daleks was used, how could you top that. Each season always tried to top the last leaving the question of for the next season, how can anything be more threatening?

My mind for a big bad villain for a 5th season is one of three possibilities.

1 The Great Intelligence. He appeared in the Patrick Troughtons era in 2 stories, The Abominable Snowmen and The Web of Fear. In the Web of Fear, he was shown to have the power to stop the Tardis in space. He is powerful enough to be a threat of a larger magnitude but I know very little about him or if he made any appearances in stories beyond the classic series.

2 The Celestial Toymaker. Appeared in the first doctor's run in a story of the same name. He is considered a guardian in later years on par with the other guardians and pulled the Tardis into a dimension of his own creation and he is immortal. He could also provide a greater threat then the Daleks and could have manipulated the events of the first four seasons and Time War in some grand game all befitting his style.

3 The Black Guardian. First appeared with The Keys of Time (The Ribos Operation,The Pirate Planet,The Stones of Blood,The Androids of Tara,The Power of Kroll, and The Armageddon Factor) and later in The Guardian Trilogy:(Mawdryn Undead, Terminus,and Enlightenment). The Doctor denied him both the Keys to Time and Enlightenment and drew the Guardians wrath.
The Guardian would also be aware of the events in The Trial of a Timelord and the Valeyard, the doctors possible bitter final regeneration. Quoting from the official site on the Valeyard:
Being aware of this possibility, the Black Guardian might want to get his revenge by turning the Doctor into the Valeyard.

Of these three villains, The Black Guardian has the best prospect, in my mind, to be the 4th season topper. He has the power to have manipulated the Time War and events in the 4 seasons we saw unfold. This would also mean the White Guardian would be involved as well. Take a look at the episodes with this in mind and you could see their possible involvement. Rose could have been placed in the Doctors path to try and save him from the fate of becoming the Valeyard by the White Guardian. How could she have survived so long with the power of the heart of the Tardis in her to destroy the Daleks. On the other side Rose being taken away at the end of the next season would fit the mold of the Black Guardian and hurting the Doctor by taking her away.

(Yes I did give a warning about my rambling ) I could list more incidents that could be associated with the Guardians but these few are enough to validate the possibility. Having seen the End of Time part 1, and seeing the speculation about the White Guardian and Timothy Dalton possibly being The Black Guardian. (Of course there is the possibility that we have the two of them backwards. Could the Black Guardian be the lady dressed in white trying to further his plans of creating the Valeyard and The White Guardian be the Lord High President. Remember he did impersonate the White Guardian at the end of the Key to Time storyline.) I have to wonder if my imagination on the possibility of topping the Daleks of season 4 are coming true. Could Russell T Davies be actually bringing this to the series and for some strange reason I had a similar idea prior to it actually happening?

I will be honestly floored if my imagined idea actually happens in some fashion. Sure he is not a villain used in a 12 episode season and then confronted in a two part epic season ender but the possibility is here and about to be revealed. I can take some comfort that I told a few of my friends who enjoy the show about this idea after the end of season 4.

I will now end my rambling as I just wanted to post this for your consideration as to what might be happening.

I don't know about the tie-in to previous series, but RTD has a knack for taking toss-off's and tying them back in, so it could be. I wasn't looking for anything to "top" Series 4 during the specials, but I, too, have been thinking about what could be in the works for Series 5. I think there was another thread about this somewhere (a who-do-you-want-to-see-return kind of discussion), but I think, especially with the evidence at hand in TEoT:P1, the Guardians are definitely a good possibility.

I hadn't considered that the Big Bad from the specials would bleed over into Series 5, as you seem to be suggesting. However, given the images out there of Eleven wearing Ten's suit (implying, to me, that there's story to be told immediately post-regeneration (that is, before he has a chance to go decide who he is now), rather than the few seconds (or minutes, if you include the Children in Need special) of Ten in Nine's attire), I think it's feasible. Certainly, the Time Lords in general seem likely to play a big role in the new era.

In case you can't tell, I've totally been aching to get back into some Who discussions. Bring on more episodes!

Oh, I know how they resurrect the Time Lords (my own wild speculation here)! They were never really gone, but had all turned themselves into Humans via Chameleon Arches and lay in waiting on Earth until it was time for them to return. The Master knew this (the Doctor, did not) and is trying to stop them from resurrecting themselves by turning ALL Humans into versions of himself, since he doesn't know specifically which Humans are really Time Lords.

Well, it's a thought anyways. It would explain why the Doctor never detected anyone else.

Hmmm... That's possible, I suppose. I think I'd be disappointed if that was the case. I mean, I'd find it disappointing just because it would be reusing an old plot device instead of coming up with something wildly new and crazy.

How about this - somehow the Time Lords are the drums in the Master's head?