In a way, it’s the most humane ending for them. Frozen like this, they do not end up in Ranna’s afterlife to face a displeased goddess.
And it’s nice to see the time jump, even if it isn’t all the way to the archaeologists. It lets us know that they will be (ahem) safe and no longer a bother to our heroes.
I agree, this worked out rather well all around, and quite artistically. And really good job, whoever moved the statue, not breaking any of the snakes off in transit.
<a href="https://yafgc.net/comic/2915-a-glimpse-into-the-future/">Tobie and crew</a> have moved to a new Gloombelt Hills site.
Tobie: Our geophys team went down the road a few miles to this small hill and scanned into the ground for structures related to it. So Brian, what did you find?
Brian (geophysics operator): Well, the hill actually appears to have a cave opening at the east end, and stretches back and down at least 100 meters or so. After that, it has gone too deep to tell for sure where it is going, or even if it is going. The opening has been covered over for centuries. It is possible it has not be opened since cave dwellers were using it to keep out of the rain.
Tobie: Well, the rain is picking up again, so let’s get in the cave so we can use it the same way. [ A small excavator carefully scrapes down on the opening several times and reveals an opening. They are joined by archaeologist Vill. Tobie, Vill and Brian enter the cave with the camera crew.
Vill: Look at these drawing on the wall. The style reminds me of 1st age imagery; it could be even older. We won’t know for sure without further examination.
Tobie: Umm, Vill. What do you make of this rock formation here?
Brian: On the read-out, I say what I interpreted as a column or stalagmite, but this cave has the wrong geology to form stalagmites. Guys, it looks like a statue of a couple of gorgons.
Vill: I think that is exactly what it is: A couple of gorgons that got careless when they were about it kiss.
Tobie: Are you sure? They both look female.
Vill: Female-female encounters are nothing new; they have been around since time immemorial. They are just more well known today.
Yeah, thats the one flaw in the story of Perseus. But on the other hand, he had to deal with the real Medusae Gorgonii from ancient greece, not the easy-peasy ones from D&D
I guess modern audiences just prefer the idea of Perseus using a mirror-shield to turn Medusa’s gaze against herself, over that of Perseus beheading Medusa while looking at her reflection on his shield.
In her sleep, according to Bullfinch’s Mythology. Guy was a jerk, honestly–if I remember right he killed half his own wedding party for some damn reason. Something about a rival lover of his bride.
Nope, the Medusa in the greek mythology didn´t turn herself into stone by looking in a mirror.
Perseus used the shining shield to watch her without being petrified and decapitated her.
If the head still had the power to petrify other creatures like in Battle of the Titans is something that I can´t remember. Maybe this was a Hollywood trick. 😉
Yes, the head still had the power. If I am not mistaken, Perseus turned people to stone with it. At the end he gave it to Athena, who then placed it on her shield.
Over in the west wing you’ll find artwork by the mysterious artist only known as "Captain Fang." We still haven’t figured out whether it’s modern, pop, psychedelic, impressionistic, cubist, surrealistic, or just what the hell it is. But, oh man, is it weird!
Same. I had always hoped her friends would rescue her and the rogue Neither girl really had a choice, both were tortured and then mind controlled with the gorgon potion, but while Meegs was never a good person, Celena deserved another chance at better fate.
Actually, I feel a bit sorry for both of them. In the beginning of the Ranna-arc it was repeatedly pointed out that the medusa-potion was not taken freely by all / most (don’t remember for Meegs… but who would want it freely anyway?). So … I was looking forward to the reverse-potion being handed out in the end followed by a huge "I am sorry for what I did"-episode. But that would have been the standard, boring storytelling, I guess. At least, this came unexpected and funny.
My first thought was, after seeing the first panels, "Damn, Meegs is actually really hot!" Then I scrolled down… Now one of my eyes is laughing, the other one cries: It is really funny how they ended up, but I will really miss them…
I wonder though, as they are not technically dead, are they aware of their surroundings and the passing of time?
> I wonder though, as they are not technically dead, are they aware of their surroundings and the passing of time?
I now picture five generations in the family’s country garden, tediously listening in on every high tea on sunny days, watching generations grow up, feeling the rain erode a little more of their surface each season, generation after generation of perching songbirds scraping their hair and shoulders with their talons, before the museum combined the great-great-grandchild to donate the piece.
The speech bubbles:
"At least there are no pigeons in here…"
"Shut up. If I have to sit through one more college kid’s theory as to the story behind our ‘passionate embrace,’ I’ll…I’ll…"
I can’t remember who I stole the joke from, but let’s see if it adapts well to this situation…
After centuries of immobility, the technology at last exists to restore the two statues — or rather, as has been conclusively demonstrated by deep thaumic resonance scans, the two petrified gorgons — to full mobility. Machines hum, spell-circuitry engages, reality-entanglement fields entangle…and with a shimmer of light, where two stone figures had stood, are two living, snake-tressed women.
The gathered scientists and historians are brimming over with questions for the pair, but they recognize that after centuries of starting into one another’s eyes, so near and yet so far, the lovers may have priorities of their own. Sure enough, the taller one asks in husky tones, "Are you thinking what I’m thinking?" The frizzy-haired one nods, and without another word the two vanish into some convenient bushes, from which the sound of vigorous rustling soon arises.
After a time, a breathless voice can be heard from the bushes. "Wanna do it again?"
"Hell yes, but this time you hold the pigeon down, and I’ll shit on its head."
Y’know what else I love? The statue suggests that some of the snakes attempted to avert their gaze (compare serpentine body language from Panel 4 and 5) a moment too late…
Out of the frying pan and into west wing, exhibit hall A. X)
Kind of an interesting prospect, gorgons not being immune to their own gaze attack. That makes being a Rannite priestess all the more dangerous, I suppose.
I never defined those extras, but it could be. When I drew it I was thinking she was a half-elf with dark skin. But you can fill in these details as you like. Whoever she is, she really likes this piece and has an appreciation for well sculpted nudes.
Then maybe it’s your D&D character! Though I was thinking a dark-skinned half-Elf as in, her human parent was dark skinned like the original people who lived in the Northrealm. But either way it’s possible.
All the elf subtypes seem to be interfertile, and the Rannite War demolished the Drow’s "No Slimy Surface Elves Allowed" clubhouse, so it’s possible that centuries in the future they’re all just "elves".
(The Mitochondrial Wolf hypothesis, however, is widely viewed as implausible by reputable geneticists, who are recognizable as reputable geneticists by the mere fact that they hold this view.)
Poor Celena. But it could be worse. From the archaeologists’ cameo, my sense is that magic in the future will be weaker (Ranna’s fault?) but not extinct. So while you’ll probably never see a wizard chanting "Abracastonetoflesh!", you might hope for a team of medics and scientists rigging some sort of magic amplifier to the same effect.
(Hopefully, historical records are complete enough that they will know to avert their eyes before waking a gorgon. Or maybe they’ll avert their eyes anyway, because they’re not cads, and the "lovers" deserve a moment to themselves.)
Sort of the opposite of the weeping angel’s warning: The moment they are seen by any other living creature they freeze into rock. No choice, it’s a fact of their biology. In the sight of any living thing they literally turn to stone, and you cant kill a stone. ‘Course, a stone can’t kill you either but then you turn your head away, then you blink and oh yes it can.
It is not about who observes them, who they observe.
A scientist: "Okay people, lets try this again, this time with something blocking their view. I can’t believe no one caught this the first time around… Fred, do you still have those peril-sensitive-sunglasses?" After they revived, and instantly turned to stone again, as they are still gazing into each other’s eyes.
Okay, had time to think this one through. I’ve always read YAFGC as a humorous and sometimes touching little oasis from the drudgery of everyday life. Yes, there have been deaths of main characters in the past, but they still manage to live on (hello Baron Greyfort.) With 3261 comics, the world and the characters populating it are very well established. The ‘deaths’ of these two come across as just mean.
Celena is referenced in 49 strips and Meegs in 184. That is an awful lot of character development to be cast aside so easily. I really wonder if we’re ever going to see Arachne again now? Anyway, YAFGC has become one of those things that sums up what I like and who I am. I escape into Elegrost every time a new strip is posted and seeing characters that I’ve enjoyed and rooted for being shown the door makes for a sad day.
I’m almost certain we have not seen the last of Arachne. When speaking of most people, "she’s in the afterlife" would be an acceptance of loss. In Arachne’s case, it’s a soldier’s status report: she is behind enemy lines in the core of Ranna’s holdings, assessing the situation until the opportunity arises to strike.
It’s true that we probably won’t see Meegs or Celena again, except perhaps cameo appearances in flashback or far-future strips, or in a distant epilogue. But I trust Rich’s judgment. The strip’s cast is huge and ever-growing, and to keep the focus sharp and the sense of danger real, it may need to be pruned now and then. A characters’ development doesn’t go to waste when they leave the stage; the prints they left on the world and the people in it remain. Morgana, Lord Dave, and Celena’s other adventuring pals won’t forget her, and who the hell can forget Meegs? (Though with time and medication, some people can control those memories and go on to lead nearly normal lives.)
And while I respect your thoughts here, I don’t feel like their fate was in any way "mean". Bittersweet, maybe, with a strong dose of "it could have been way worse". At least they’re out of Ranna’s reach; we have seen what she does to discarded tools. They even stand decent odds of being restored in some distant future, to learn about (in Celena’s case) or bring merry chaos to (in Meegs’) a new and unfamiliar world. (Can you imagine the self-serving and hilariously distorted stories Meegs will tell historians about the YAFGC era?)
And as a last faint ray of hope if you still need one, remember that the cast includes time-travelers. 😉
It is a bit sad, though much less sad then their souls being tortured and eaten by Ranna. But would the whole Ranna war have any weight, or meaning, if we didn’t lose any of the known characters in it, at all? I see it as a bit of sadness, a bit of humor and art, and all around really good story-telling.
As mudcat said, imagine them in some far future, hilariously distorting the view of their past. 🙂
That’s a totally fair assessment and I’ll own up to it. Was this ‘mean’ of me to do to my characters. Yeah, maybe. I’ve got a mean streak sometimes. Just ask Clover -though she did get the ultimate turnaround ending she deserved. But then there’s that Hobgoblin prisoner who hoped for an escape from her torture sentence in the Drow chamber by volunteering to be Lewie’s assistant… only to discover that meant being hanged and resurrected as a zombie. That would have had more of an impact if we’d gotten to know her first, but YAFGC isn’t immune to inglorious or undignified and unfair endings.
I’m sorry if it upset you. But by the same token, the fact that people are having emotional reactions to these characters and their fates is what keeps me going and makes me know that I’ve made something real and I love and appreciate you for that.
I can’t remember her… Is there a link to that strip?
But I still do mourn for the Black Mountain and Arachne, and all those we might have lost there just didn’t learn it yet…
As I said above, I am also sad for them, but it definately could have been worse. As such, even there is a cure to degorgonise Ranna’s less willingly converted priestesses, they might still be brainwashed and/or scared enough to hide away, eventualy not even wanting to be back as they were before. Also, there is the question, whether people would look for a way to turn them back in the first place, or would just hunt them down for their crimes.
So, the two of them might just got the best ending they could: out of Ranna’s reach, away from the anger of the people they wronged.
And who knows, we might see them time to time again, not in the distant future, but as statues in a cave, where the poeple we follow found shelter for a night, from a storm, or from enemies.
Also, ‘mean’ is okay, as long as it is funny and serves no offensive purpuses. You just have to have the right ‘target’ and the right audiance.
We met the hobgoblin just after Jone’s defeat, when Mrs. B was reluctantly allowing Lewie back into the Black Mountain power structure in return for his blasting Jone.
https://yafgc.net/comic/1415-lewie-recruits/
Years later we saw her again — or rather, her mindless, drooling husk — still serving as Lewie’s "assistant".
> Yes, there have been deaths of main characters in the past, but they still manage to live on (hello Baron Greyfort.)
Taidor?
> Celena is referenced in 49 strips
Taidor got 53. *Quantity* doesn’t really matter.
There’s one character who made a HUGE impression on me in like two or three strips. She’s so peripheral I’ve since been unable to find her again!
> That is an awful lot of character development to be cast aside so easily.
Cast aside easily? They were given a unique exit, an exit which in many ways is quite beautiful.
Also, not for nothing but Richard jumped forward in time, he made an effort which, while not unprecedented, is exceptionally rare, to make it explicit that, for these two, this fate is the de facto end of the line. This is not casual here at all.
> seeing characters that I’ve enjoyed and rooted for being shown the door makes for a sad day
The inevitability of loss provides context to love and care; it’s a necessary and beautiful part of the deal.
That’s sad. I actually liked Meegs, when she was introduced. And kept hoping she’d be redeemed, after going full dark side. I guess, this means that’ll never happen. As, unless there’s time travel, this is her last appearance.
Well at least we finally got an answer to the genital hair snakes question. Unless they’ve been broken off by prudes during the intervening centuries, like a lot of the penises on classical statues in our world.
Y’know, I suddenly find myself wondering how long elves (or part-elves) live in this world. Because the pointy-eared visitor with the hatpins looks more like she’s delightedly greeting old friends than admiring an artwork.
"Meegs! Celina! I’d been WONDERING where you two were all this time!"
I have to ask, do you ever get attached to your characters with the amount of cruel, unusual and funny (usually all three) fates? Cause you’ve got a bit of a GRRM streak.
(looks up GRRM) OH! George R.R.Martin! Yeah, I’ve been compared to him before. Any time a character dies his name jumps out at me. "Oh there you go killing off all your characters like G.R.R.Martin!"
If you look at the ratio of characters who die and stay dead vs characters who survive and actually do pretty well, you’ll see I’m about as far away from GRRM as it gets. I think anyway if his reputation is anything to go by. I haven’t in fact read anything he’s written nor watch any of Game of Thrones save for a single clip of giants in a battle.
Do I get attached to my characters? Oh man. I sure do. I love those people. I often describe the way I work on YAFGC this way: I’m not writing and drawing it. I visit it every chance I get. I peer through a magical window into a world that’s going on all by itself and those characters are living those lives and I love them all.
I don’t…. like…. talk to them out loud or anything but I can ping and tap into their consciousnesses as though they were sitting in the room next to me. I can think of a situation and imagine how say…. Maula would handle it. And then how might Lewie handle it and the answer is totally different. Writing and drawing YAFGC is like a vacation for me. I go away to their world for a little while and invisibly take in the mayhem.
So if I love them so much -I imagine you might next ask- how come I’m so mean to them? How can I let them suffer or die?
Well… because that’s what happens. If I rescued them ALL there’d be no power to the world. It wouldn’t be real. The characters would stop being living people and become numb, mindless drones reading out dialogue from scripts. No consequences. No tragedy. No pain. It makes for a really really really drab and boring world. As it is I’ve saved more of them than I wish I had.
When the Black Mountain blew up I starting making a list of all the characters who were winked out. But I could only put a very few down before I started pulling them back out and finding excuses for why they might have survived.
I think a better question would be: Why does this character death make it feel like the world is a tragic sad place? Because that’s what death does. It’s sad and it hurts. And though there’s dark humour to be found in it sometimes, that’s what we have to deal with.
And it makes the good times better and more precious.
As for the tapping into subconcious thing, I write up a wrestling rpg show every so often, being a former trained pro wrestler, I’ve actually cut promos and when it comes to it, reenacted matches to see if certain things can tie together.
Didn’t take that long with Meegs. And Meegs was never decent, she was self-centered and annoying. When she was made into a gorgon, she actually seemed to enjoy her new position and power it brought.
A lot of people didn’t like Meegs as a person, but liked her as a character. She definitely was a well developed character and her actions were very much written to provoke outrage.
I just sincerely hope Arachne stays dead. I think some people view her through rose-tinted lenses, but the truth is, Meegs’s worst acts don’t scratch the surface of how awful Arachne was. And the worst part of it that it always felt like the narrative was pretending she was actually perfectly okay and just glossing over her many crimes.
All I’m saying is you can have Meegs, but please please PLEASE keep Arachne, too.
See it’s comments like this that make me start coming up with ways to bring characters back. It might otherwise not have occurred to me to miss Arachne, but since you’ve brought her up…
Interestingly in Arachne’s world she was a heroine. She behaved in a way that was not only perfectly acceptable in the confines of her culture, but actually excelled and was to be admired by other aspiring evil Drow. So the narrative said exactly that. She committed many crimes that a Human in a Human world would and should be appalled at. But Humans are not qualified to judge the merits of her actions in the context of a Drow society.
Then of course, she was hot, and that made her very popular with a certain percentage of the readership. And all of the social problems that are implied there too.
Hey! Look at me, guys! I did a thinky-thing with my comics.
Ah yes, meta-ethical relativism. As Noam Chomsky once noted, "There are no moral relativists. There are people who profess it. You can discuss it abstractly, but it doesn’t exist in ordinary life."
And as Shashi Tharoor said, "In any case, there should be nothing sacrosanct about culture. Culture is constantly evolving in any living society, responding to both internal and external stimuli, and there is much in every culture that societies quite naturally outgrow and reject. Am I, as an Indian, obliged to defend, in the name of my culture, the practice of suttee, which was banned 160 years ago, of obliging widows to immolate themselves on their husbands’ funeral pyres? The fact that slavery was acceptable across the world for at least 2,000 years does not make it acceptable to us now; the deep historical roots of anti-Semitism in European culture cannot justify discrimination against Jews today.
The problem with the culture argument is that it subsumes all members of a society under a cultural framework that may in fact be inimical to them. It is one thing to advocate the cultural argument with an escape clause—that is, one that does not seek to coerce the dissenters but permits individuals to opt out and to assert their individual rights. Those who freely choose to live by and to be treated according to their traditional cultures are welcome to do so, provided others who wish to be free are not oppressed in the name of a culture they prefer to disavow."
In short, I reject meta-ethical relativism outright. I’m sorry, but it’s just intellectually lazy, incoherent hogwash. Arachne was absolutely a terrible person—not because humans would think she was (nor even if humans from a brutal slave society might think she wasn’t!) but because what she selfishly did to others, the way she savagely attacked and curtailed their rights, was terrible. She was an entertaining enough villain at times, but she was never, ever a heroine.
See, I never said I liked Arachne personally. I mean, I’d never invite her around to dinner or hang out casually with her. I wouldn’t even send her holiday cards. But her colleagues certainly respected her and held her as the pinnacle of [her world’s] Drow successful behaviour most of the time. She got chummy with the Drow Queen and had her share of admirers, Drow and otherwise.
As a YAFGC character she was a success. I mean, more than that. I’d argue that her only possible competition for most popular YAFGC character ever might be Cadugan. She was fun to draw, fun to write for, obviously she was fun to look at, fun to love and fun to hate.
So… feel free to dislike her and disagree with anything I have to say. Feel free to find more historic quotes that you also disagree with. You’ll never convince me that if I do bring her back from the dead she won’t be greeted by cheers and applause by most of the readership.
Above all: I ain’t writing scripture here. She’s a love-to-hate cartoon character. If anyone’s taking life advice from Arachne, they’ve got their own problems.
As Michael Palin once said: “I’ve always said there’s nothing an agnostic can’t do if he really doesn’t know whether he believes in anything or not.”
Well, everyone has the right to have their own opinion, but…
How much there are no absolute moral or ethical rules pretty much proven by history, and even by the different cultures of our present days. What is accepted in one place, might be seen as the utmost offense in an other one. Who is to tell who is right? Everyone judges according their own cultural norms.
If we go back in time, it becomes even more evident. I believe, nowadays most people would agree, that torturing others to death is evil. But if you would go back to the medieval ages and ask an inquisitor about it, he might would tell you, that hunting down the witches is for the good of the decent folks, and torturing them to death is necessary to save their souls from eternal damnation. He would basically tell you, he is acting in the name of good. And he would be fully convinced about his own right. And the interesting thing about it, if you would ask other people form his time about it, they might would tell you the same. Because whitches were considered evil.
We proved it many times, that today’s heroes can be seen in the future as villains, and the other way around.
It obviously doesn’t mean, that everyone could just go around and do as they please, backing up their actions with "cultural differences". Because there are rules, that commonly accepted. But they are accepted and therefore valid only in our present, and eventually in our country.
So, if we take this entire concept over to a fantasy world, where different civilized races exist parallel next to each other, especially with differing alignments, it is indeed possible, that they have entirely different morals and ethics. Then a person can be a hero to one, and a villain to other at the same time. Arachne is a fine example for that. An other good example would be Sir Garren (https://yafgc.net/comic/0715-thomas-hecklers/). Its like having a country with medieval morals as neighbours: We could point at them, telling how evil they are, torturing others and so, and they would tell how evil we are, letting them witches freely practice their dark rituals. I would bet a lot on that, noone could convince the other, that they are wrong.
TL;DR: Yes, we do have morals and ethics. Yes, according them, Arachne is a terrible person and a villain. But our morals and ethics are not absolute (proven by history), and they do not apply to the Drow, and consequently to Arachne either.
Also: We, as readers, have the luxury to distuingish between "personality" and "character". If you have "good guys" and "bad guys" in your story, you want to have well written characters both for your heroes and your villains. And if they are written well enough, people will like them. Not for their personalities, but for their performance in fulfilling their given roles.
I can provide you a list of villains, who were terrible people, and yet incredibly popular by the audiance…
This seems oddly similar to Lucas and Cadugan when they were stoned. Part of me wishes that that statue could have been the next exhibit over, most of me is glad things turned out the way they did.
It has been previously established that people who turn to stone do not die. (1) Lucas and Cadugan were turned back with some magic/alchemy. (2) Stoned cultists are not in the afterlife – the evil goddess can't punish them.
I find this display odd. Surely people realize that this might be two people rather than a statue and that they can be magically saved.
Well… OK, this one is weird. Ignoring that gorgons petrifying other gorgons is highly questionable in the first place, why the hell would Celena do that? Or Meegs for that matter, even if she wasn't another gorgon, petrifying someone who is grappling you is a terrible idea.
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Did someone call this I cannot remember.
Yup. Last strip reader "steveha" said:
"I was hoping a beholder, any beholder, would hit Meegs with a Flesh to Stone beam and turn her into a tasteful classical nude statue."
It didn’t go quite the way they’d called it, but it was pretty close to the mark! 😀 Good one steveha!
Hear hear!
Oh, this is even better than what I was hoping for. Very well done! ^_^
You’ll receive the Internet you won within 7 business days. Make sure somebody is home to sign for it.
And in the prior strip, I was posting about her being petrified and sent to a museum.
Nice end to these two characters, that I neither particularly wanted gone, nor feel I’ll miss now that they are.
In a way, it’s the most humane ending for them. Frozen like this, they do not end up in Ranna’s afterlife to face a displeased goddess.
And it’s nice to see the time jump, even if it isn’t all the way to the archaeologists. It lets us know that they will be (ahem) safe and no longer a bother to our heroes.
I agree, this worked out rather well all around, and quite artistically. And really good job, whoever moved the statue, not breaking any of the snakes off in transit.
<a href="https://yafgc.net/comic/2915-a-glimpse-into-the-future/">Tobie and crew</a> have moved to a new Gloombelt Hills site.
Tobie: Our geophys team went down the road a few miles to this small hill and scanned into the ground for structures related to it. So Brian, what did you find?
Brian (geophysics operator): Well, the hill actually appears to have a cave opening at the east end, and stretches back and down at least 100 meters or so. After that, it has gone too deep to tell for sure where it is going, or even if it is going. The opening has been covered over for centuries. It is possible it has not be opened since cave dwellers were using it to keep out of the rain.
Tobie: Well, the rain is picking up again, so let’s get in the cave so we can use it the same way. [ A small excavator carefully scrapes down on the opening several times and reveals an opening. They are joined by archaeologist Vill. Tobie, Vill and Brian enter the cave with the camera crew.
Vill: Look at these drawing on the wall. The style reminds me of 1st age imagery; it could be even older. We won’t know for sure without further examination.
Tobie: Umm, Vill. What do you make of this rock formation here?
Brian: On the read-out, I say what I interpreted as a column or stalagmite, but this cave has the wrong geology to form stalagmites. Guys, it looks like a statue of a couple of gorgons.
Vill: I think that is exactly what it is: A couple of gorgons that got careless when they were about it kiss.
Tobie: Are you sure? They both look female.
Vill: Female-female encounters are nothing new; they have been around since time immemorial. They are just more well known today.
And they petrified each other to death.
Technically not death. A Stone-To-Flesh spell can restore them, but nobody would want to be the one to restore a gorgon while they were in the room.
The statues would presumably have a detectable aura of transmutation magic, hinting that they really ARE petrified Gorgons.
Maybe I missed something earlier on but I was quite surprised these last few pages to find that Meegs became a Rannite.
Check out the storyline called "A Snake in my Pocket" in the archives. Specifically this strip: https://yafgc.net/comic/3032-grells-surprise/
We still don’t know how or why Meegs became a Rannite. Particularly whether she embraced it or was forced.
Than check out this strip:
https://yafgc.net/comic/3038-the-mighty-meegs/
Ah yes, that makes it clear, Thanks
Gorgon’s aren’t immune to each others’ gazes?
They aren’t even immune to their OWN gazes. If you’re a Gorgon you need to watch out for mirror wielding adventurers.
Which is odd since non-gorgons don’t turn to stone when looking at a gorgon in a mirror.
Yeah, thats the one flaw in the story of Perseus. But on the other hand, he had to deal with the real Medusae Gorgonii from ancient greece, not the easy-peasy ones from D&D
I guess modern audiences just prefer the idea of Perseus using a mirror-shield to turn Medusa’s gaze against herself, over that of Perseus beheading Medusa while looking at her reflection on his shield.
In her sleep, according to Bullfinch’s Mythology. Guy was a jerk, honestly–if I remember right he killed half his own wedding party for some damn reason. Something about a rival lover of his bride.
Nope, the Medusa in the greek mythology didn´t turn herself into stone by looking in a mirror.
Perseus used the shining shield to watch her without being petrified and decapitated her.
If the head still had the power to petrify other creatures like in Battle of the Titans is something that I can´t remember. Maybe this was a Hollywood trick. 😉
Yes, the head still had the power. If I am not mistaken, Perseus turned people to stone with it. At the end he gave it to Athena, who then placed it on her shield.
It does explain why they’re always wearing those masks, even when there’s only other gorgons around.
And now I’m hearing the 10th Doctor say to River Song:
"I’m a time traveler. I point and laugh at archeologists."
😀
Over in the west wing you’ll find artwork by the mysterious artist only known as "Captain Fang." We still haven’t figured out whether it’s modern, pop, psychedelic, impressionistic, cubist, surrealistic, or just what the hell it is. But, oh man, is it weird!
Thank you for plugging his work! The check will be in the mail as soon as I can peel a stamp off his snout.
😀
LOL!
That’s definitely funnier than her getting zapped by a Beholder.
😀
I hoped for a better end for Celena…
She ended a puppet, after being abandonded by Friends and her godess… and now shes only a stone.
Same. I had always hoped her friends would rescue her and the rogue Neither girl really had a choice, both were tortured and then mind controlled with the gorgon potion, but while Meegs was never a good person, Celena deserved another chance at better fate.
Actually, I feel a bit sorry for both of them. In the beginning of the Ranna-arc it was repeatedly pointed out that the medusa-potion was not taken freely by all / most (don’t remember for Meegs… but who would want it freely anyway?). So … I was looking forward to the reverse-potion being handed out in the end followed by a huge "I am sorry for what I did"-episode. But that would have been the standard, boring storytelling, I guess. At least, this came unexpected and funny.
Cue Bob Dylan, "Everybody must get stoned!"
Good one. 🙂
Thank you. 🙂
My first thought was, after seeing the first panels, "Damn, Meegs is actually really hot!" Then I scrolled down… Now one of my eyes is laughing, the other one cries: It is really funny how they ended up, but I will really miss them…
I wonder though, as they are not technically dead, are they aware of their surroundings and the passing of time?
> I wonder though, as they are not technically dead, are they aware of their surroundings and the passing of time?
I now picture five generations in the family’s country garden, tediously listening in on every high tea on sunny days, watching generations grow up, feeling the rain erode a little more of their surface each season, generation after generation of perching songbirds scraping their hair and shoulders with their talons, before the museum combined the great-great-grandchild to donate the piece.
The speech bubbles:
"At least there are no pigeons in here…"
"Shut up. If I have to sit through one more college kid’s theory as to the story behind our ‘passionate embrace,’ I’ll…I’ll…"
I can’t remember who I stole the joke from, but let’s see if it adapts well to this situation…
After centuries of immobility, the technology at last exists to restore the two statues — or rather, as has been conclusively demonstrated by deep thaumic resonance scans, the two petrified gorgons — to full mobility. Machines hum, spell-circuitry engages, reality-entanglement fields entangle…and with a shimmer of light, where two stone figures had stood, are two living, snake-tressed women.
The gathered scientists and historians are brimming over with questions for the pair, but they recognize that after centuries of starting into one another’s eyes, so near and yet so far, the lovers may have priorities of their own. Sure enough, the taller one asks in husky tones, "Are you thinking what I’m thinking?" The frizzy-haired one nods, and without another word the two vanish into some convenient bushes, from which the sound of vigorous rustling soon arises.
After a time, a breathless voice can be heard from the bushes. "Wanna do it again?"
"Hell yes, but this time you hold the pigeon down, and I’ll shit on its head."
I just heard that in Meegs’ imagined voice.
I’m sending you a bill for cleaning the fragments of my brain off of the upholstry.
😉
The snake reactions in Panel 4 are awesome.
t!
Y’know what else I love? The statue suggests that some of the snakes attempted to avert their gaze (compare serpentine body language from Panel 4 and 5) a moment too late…
Hah, yes! I noticed that, too.
t!
Out of the frying pan and into west wing, exhibit hall A. X)
Kind of an interesting prospect, gorgons not being immune to their own gaze attack. That makes being a Rannite priestess all the more dangerous, I suppose.
This makes me think that magic eventually leaves this planet.
Rich, in the last panel, is that a drow and a high elf viewing the statue? If so, a lot of things have changed over the centuries.
I never defined those extras, but it could be. When I drew it I was thinking she was a half-elf with dark skin. But you can fill in these details as you like. Whoever she is, she really likes this piece and has an appreciation for well sculpted nudes.
My D&D character, was a half-drow.
Then maybe it’s your D&D character! Though I was thinking a dark-skinned half-Elf as in, her human parent was dark skinned like the original people who lived in the Northrealm. But either way it’s possible.
All the elf subtypes seem to be interfertile, and the Rannite War demolished the Drow’s "No Slimy Surface Elves Allowed" clubhouse, so it’s possible that centuries in the future they’re all just "elves".
(The Mitochondrial Wolf hypothesis, however, is widely viewed as implausible by reputable geneticists, who are recognizable as reputable geneticists by the mere fact that they hold this view.)
Maybe Toby Robertson’ll save them.
Poor Celena. But it could be worse. From the archaeologists’ cameo, my sense is that magic in the future will be weaker (Ranna’s fault?) but not extinct. So while you’ll probably never see a wizard chanting "Abracastonetoflesh!", you might hope for a team of medics and scientists rigging some sort of magic amplifier to the same effect.
(Hopefully, historical records are complete enough that they will know to avert their eyes before waking a gorgon. Or maybe they’ll avert their eyes anyway, because they’re not cads, and the "lovers" deserve a moment to themselves.)
Sort of the opposite of the weeping angel’s warning: The moment they are seen by any other living creature they freeze into rock. No choice, it’s a fact of their biology. In the sight of any living thing they literally turn to stone, and you cant kill a stone. ‘Course, a stone can’t kill you either but then you turn your head away, then you blink and oh yes it can.
It is not about who observes them, who they observe.
I can see a couple of false starts…
A scientist: "Okay people, lets try this again, this time with something blocking their view. I can’t believe no one caught this the first time around… Fred, do you still have those peril-sensitive-sunglasses?" After they revived, and instantly turned to stone again, as they are still gazing into each other’s eyes.
"Oh, fer Ch’thier’s sake, Fred! All right, this time have we got sunglasses on everyone INCLUDING the patients?"
"Wait, Mary. Do you think we need a tiny pair of sunglasses for each snake?"
Not sure why this one got shunted to approval. I don’t think wordpress liked you taking Ch’Their’s name in vain!
"Wait, Mary. Do you think we need a tiny pair of sunglasses for each snake?"
"Hmm. Probably not, but it’d be cute as hell."
(OOPS. Apparently my comment was lost in approval limbo. Sorry for the double post!)
Okay, had time to think this one through. I’ve always read YAFGC as a humorous and sometimes touching little oasis from the drudgery of everyday life. Yes, there have been deaths of main characters in the past, but they still manage to live on (hello Baron Greyfort.) With 3261 comics, the world and the characters populating it are very well established. The ‘deaths’ of these two come across as just mean.
Celena is referenced in 49 strips and Meegs in 184. That is an awful lot of character development to be cast aside so easily. I really wonder if we’re ever going to see Arachne again now? Anyway, YAFGC has become one of those things that sums up what I like and who I am. I escape into Elegrost every time a new strip is posted and seeing characters that I’ve enjoyed and rooted for being shown the door makes for a sad day.
I’m almost certain we have not seen the last of Arachne. When speaking of most people, "she’s in the afterlife" would be an acceptance of loss. In Arachne’s case, it’s a soldier’s status report: she is behind enemy lines in the core of Ranna’s holdings, assessing the situation until the opportunity arises to strike.
It’s true that we probably won’t see Meegs or Celena again, except perhaps cameo appearances in flashback or far-future strips, or in a distant epilogue. But I trust Rich’s judgment. The strip’s cast is huge and ever-growing, and to keep the focus sharp and the sense of danger real, it may need to be pruned now and then. A characters’ development doesn’t go to waste when they leave the stage; the prints they left on the world and the people in it remain. Morgana, Lord Dave, and Celena’s other adventuring pals won’t forget her, and who the hell can forget Meegs? (Though with time and medication, some people can control those memories and go on to lead nearly normal lives.)
And while I respect your thoughts here, I don’t feel like their fate was in any way "mean". Bittersweet, maybe, with a strong dose of "it could have been way worse". At least they’re out of Ranna’s reach; we have seen what she does to discarded tools. They even stand decent odds of being restored in some distant future, to learn about (in Celena’s case) or bring merry chaos to (in Meegs’) a new and unfamiliar world. (Can you imagine the self-serving and hilariously distorted stories Meegs will tell historians about the YAFGC era?)
And as a last faint ray of hope if you still need one, remember that the cast includes time-travelers. 😉
> who the hell can forget Meegs? (Though with time and medication, some people can control those memories and go on to lead nearly normal lives.)
HAH!
Excellent.
t!
It is a bit sad, though much less sad then their souls being tortured and eaten by Ranna. But would the whole Ranna war have any weight, or meaning, if we didn’t lose any of the known characters in it, at all? I see it as a bit of sadness, a bit of humor and art, and all around really good story-telling.
As mudcat said, imagine them in some far future, hilariously distorting the view of their past. 🙂
That’s a totally fair assessment and I’ll own up to it. Was this ‘mean’ of me to do to my characters. Yeah, maybe. I’ve got a mean streak sometimes. Just ask Clover -though she did get the ultimate turnaround ending she deserved. But then there’s that Hobgoblin prisoner who hoped for an escape from her torture sentence in the Drow chamber by volunteering to be Lewie’s assistant… only to discover that meant being hanged and resurrected as a zombie. That would have had more of an impact if we’d gotten to know her first, but YAFGC isn’t immune to inglorious or undignified and unfair endings.
I’m sorry if it upset you. But by the same token, the fact that people are having emotional reactions to these characters and their fates is what keeps me going and makes me know that I’ve made something real and I love and appreciate you for that.
How many years later, and I STILL feel bad for that hobgoblin!
I can’t remember her… Is there a link to that strip?
But I still do mourn for the Black Mountain and Arachne, and all those we might have lost there just didn’t learn it yet…
As I said above, I am also sad for them, but it definately could have been worse. As such, even there is a cure to degorgonise Ranna’s less willingly converted priestesses, they might still be brainwashed and/or scared enough to hide away, eventualy not even wanting to be back as they were before. Also, there is the question, whether people would look for a way to turn them back in the first place, or would just hunt them down for their crimes.
So, the two of them might just got the best ending they could: out of Ranna’s reach, away from the anger of the people they wronged.
And who knows, we might see them time to time again, not in the distant future, but as statues in a cave, where the poeple we follow found shelter for a night, from a storm, or from enemies.
Also, ‘mean’ is okay, as long as it is funny and serves no offensive purpuses. You just have to have the right ‘target’ and the right audiance.
We met the hobgoblin just after Jone’s defeat, when Mrs. B was reluctantly allowing Lewie back into the Black Mountain power structure in return for his blasting Jone.
https://yafgc.net/comic/1415-lewie-recruits/
Years later we saw her again — or rather, her mindless, drooling husk — still serving as Lewie’s "assistant".
https://yafgc.net/comic/2064-lewstrom-the-alchemist/
Thanks a lot!
> Yes, there have been deaths of main characters in the past, but they still manage to live on (hello Baron Greyfort.)
Taidor?
> Celena is referenced in 49 strips
Taidor got 53. *Quantity* doesn’t really matter.
There’s one character who made a HUGE impression on me in like two or three strips. She’s so peripheral I’ve since been unable to find her again!
> That is an awful lot of character development to be cast aside so easily.
Cast aside easily? They were given a unique exit, an exit which in many ways is quite beautiful.
Also, not for nothing but Richard jumped forward in time, he made an effort which, while not unprecedented, is exceptionally rare, to make it explicit that, for these two, this fate is the de facto end of the line. This is not casual here at all.
> seeing characters that I’ve enjoyed and rooted for being shown the door makes for a sad day
The inevitability of loss provides context to love and care; it’s a necessary and beautiful part of the deal.
t!
That’s sad. I actually liked Meegs, when she was introduced. And kept hoping she’d be redeemed, after going full dark side. I guess, this means that’ll never happen. As, unless there’s time travel, this is her last appearance.
Poor Meegs. Oh well.
I can’t believe no one has said this yet, but…
Two birds, at once stoned.
/facedesk
Excellent pun. Please see yourself out. <3
Oh, that’s good! Bravo!
"My only regret is that this platform has no upvotes to give for this comic."
~Almost, but not quite, Nathan Hale
Oh well, poor Meegs and Celena. At least they aren’t outright "dead," but a great strip regardless 🙂
[slow clap]
Well at least we finally got an answer to the genital hair snakes question. Unless they’ve been broken off by prudes during the intervening centuries, like a lot of the penises on classical statues in our world.
"As it has been written, so it shall come to pass."
Verily, Meegs’ fate was written in stone, as it were.
that was a satisfying conclusion
Y’know, I suddenly find myself wondering how long elves (or part-elves) live in this world. Because the pointy-eared visitor with the hatpins looks more like she’s delightedly greeting old friends than admiring an artwork.
"Meegs! Celina! I’d been WONDERING where you two were all this time!"
I have to ask, do you ever get attached to your characters with the amount of cruel, unusual and funny (usually all three) fates? Cause you’ve got a bit of a GRRM streak.
Still loving the work though
(looks up GRRM) OH! George R.R.Martin! Yeah, I’ve been compared to him before. Any time a character dies his name jumps out at me. "Oh there you go killing off all your characters like G.R.R.Martin!"
If you look at the ratio of characters who die and stay dead vs characters who survive and actually do pretty well, you’ll see I’m about as far away from GRRM as it gets. I think anyway if his reputation is anything to go by. I haven’t in fact read anything he’s written nor watch any of Game of Thrones save for a single clip of giants in a battle.
Do I get attached to my characters? Oh man. I sure do. I love those people. I often describe the way I work on YAFGC this way: I’m not writing and drawing it. I visit it every chance I get. I peer through a magical window into a world that’s going on all by itself and those characters are living those lives and I love them all.
I don’t…. like…. talk to them out loud or anything but I can ping and tap into their consciousnesses as though they were sitting in the room next to me. I can think of a situation and imagine how say…. Maula would handle it. And then how might Lewie handle it and the answer is totally different. Writing and drawing YAFGC is like a vacation for me. I go away to their world for a little while and invisibly take in the mayhem.
So if I love them so much -I imagine you might next ask- how come I’m so mean to them? How can I let them suffer or die?
Well… because that’s what happens. If I rescued them ALL there’d be no power to the world. It wouldn’t be real. The characters would stop being living people and become numb, mindless drones reading out dialogue from scripts. No consequences. No tragedy. No pain. It makes for a really really really drab and boring world. As it is I’ve saved more of them than I wish I had.
When the Black Mountain blew up I starting making a list of all the characters who were winked out. But I could only put a very few down before I started pulling them back out and finding excuses for why they might have survived.
I think a better question would be: Why does this character death make it feel like the world is a tragic sad place? Because that’s what death does. It’s sad and it hurts. And though there’s dark humour to be found in it sometimes, that’s what we have to deal with.
And it makes the good times better and more precious.
Always good to see an artist take pride.
As for the tapping into subconcious thing, I write up a wrestling rpg show every so often, being a former trained pro wrestler, I’ve actually cut promos and when it comes to it, reenacted matches to see if certain things can tie together.
Best to be found than to be worn away by the wind, water, and sand.
I sort of pity them… both were forced to become medusae and brainwashed into becoming rannites, they were sorta decent people before…
Didn’t take that long with Meegs. And Meegs was never decent, she was self-centered and annoying. When she was made into a gorgon, she actually seemed to enjoy her new position and power it brought.
A lot of people didn’t like Meegs as a person, but liked her as a character. She definitely was a well developed character and her actions were very much written to provoke outrage.
What happened to strips 3262 to 3266?
t!
Disregard. It seems to have fixed itself.
t!
Not quite. The url for #3262 still reads "https://yafgc.net/comic/3267-finding-alaria/"
Not sure if that will cause potential glitches down the line, but if so, good catch!
It’s amazing the effects a single simple typo can have. I’ll fix it post haste!
EDIT: I think that’s fixed it. Fingers crossed.
It’s fixed! I’m putting the blame on Meegs for this. Her last spell did more than just teleport her.
HAH!
Nice one.
t!
I just sincerely hope Arachne stays dead. I think some people view her through rose-tinted lenses, but the truth is, Meegs’s worst acts don’t scratch the surface of how awful Arachne was. And the worst part of it that it always felt like the narrative was pretending she was actually perfectly okay and just glossing over her many crimes.
All I’m saying is you can have Meegs, but please please PLEASE keep Arachne, too.
See it’s comments like this that make me start coming up with ways to bring characters back. It might otherwise not have occurred to me to miss Arachne, but since you’ve brought her up…
Interestingly in Arachne’s world she was a heroine. She behaved in a way that was not only perfectly acceptable in the confines of her culture, but actually excelled and was to be admired by other aspiring evil Drow. So the narrative said exactly that. She committed many crimes that a Human in a Human world would and should be appalled at. But Humans are not qualified to judge the merits of her actions in the context of a Drow society.
Then of course, she was hot, and that made her very popular with a certain percentage of the readership. And all of the social problems that are implied there too.
Hey! Look at me, guys! I did a thinky-thing with my comics.
> Hey! Look at me, guys! I did a thinky-thing with my comics.
Please.
That started with Strip #6.
t!
Ah yes, meta-ethical relativism. As Noam Chomsky once noted, "There are no moral relativists. There are people who profess it. You can discuss it abstractly, but it doesn’t exist in ordinary life."
And as Shashi Tharoor said, "In any case, there should be nothing sacrosanct about culture. Culture is constantly evolving in any living society, responding to both internal and external stimuli, and there is much in every culture that societies quite naturally outgrow and reject. Am I, as an Indian, obliged to defend, in the name of my culture, the practice of suttee, which was banned 160 years ago, of obliging widows to immolate themselves on their husbands’ funeral pyres? The fact that slavery was acceptable across the world for at least 2,000 years does not make it acceptable to us now; the deep historical roots of anti-Semitism in European culture cannot justify discrimination against Jews today.
The problem with the culture argument is that it subsumes all members of a society under a cultural framework that may in fact be inimical to them. It is one thing to advocate the cultural argument with an escape clause—that is, one that does not seek to coerce the dissenters but permits individuals to opt out and to assert their individual rights. Those who freely choose to live by and to be treated according to their traditional cultures are welcome to do so, provided others who wish to be free are not oppressed in the name of a culture they prefer to disavow."
In short, I reject meta-ethical relativism outright. I’m sorry, but it’s just intellectually lazy, incoherent hogwash. Arachne was absolutely a terrible person—not because humans would think she was (nor even if humans from a brutal slave society might think she wasn’t!) but because what she selfishly did to others, the way she savagely attacked and curtailed their rights, was terrible. She was an entertaining enough villain at times, but she was never, ever a heroine.
Absolutely not.
My cartoon characters disagree. 🙂
See, I never said I liked Arachne personally. I mean, I’d never invite her around to dinner or hang out casually with her. I wouldn’t even send her holiday cards. But her colleagues certainly respected her and held her as the pinnacle of [her world’s] Drow successful behaviour most of the time. She got chummy with the Drow Queen and had her share of admirers, Drow and otherwise.
As a YAFGC character she was a success. I mean, more than that. I’d argue that her only possible competition for most popular YAFGC character ever might be Cadugan. She was fun to draw, fun to write for, obviously she was fun to look at, fun to love and fun to hate.
So… feel free to dislike her and disagree with anything I have to say. Feel free to find more historic quotes that you also disagree with. You’ll never convince me that if I do bring her back from the dead she won’t be greeted by cheers and applause by most of the readership.
Above all: I ain’t writing scripture here. She’s a love-to-hate cartoon character. If anyone’s taking life advice from Arachne, they’ve got their own problems.
As Michael Palin once said: “I’ve always said there’s nothing an agnostic can’t do if he really doesn’t know whether he believes in anything or not.”
I think that was Graham Chapman, but a lovely line nonetheless. 🙂
Oh damn! You’re right. Palin was the Protestant in the Meaning of Life in a similar sketch.
Well, everyone has the right to have their own opinion, but…
How much there are no absolute moral or ethical rules pretty much proven by history, and even by the different cultures of our present days. What is accepted in one place, might be seen as the utmost offense in an other one. Who is to tell who is right? Everyone judges according their own cultural norms.
If we go back in time, it becomes even more evident. I believe, nowadays most people would agree, that torturing others to death is evil. But if you would go back to the medieval ages and ask an inquisitor about it, he might would tell you, that hunting down the witches is for the good of the decent folks, and torturing them to death is necessary to save their souls from eternal damnation. He would basically tell you, he is acting in the name of good. And he would be fully convinced about his own right. And the interesting thing about it, if you would ask other people form his time about it, they might would tell you the same. Because whitches were considered evil.
We proved it many times, that today’s heroes can be seen in the future as villains, and the other way around.
It obviously doesn’t mean, that everyone could just go around and do as they please, backing up their actions with "cultural differences". Because there are rules, that commonly accepted. But they are accepted and therefore valid only in our present, and eventually in our country.
So, if we take this entire concept over to a fantasy world, where different civilized races exist parallel next to each other, especially with differing alignments, it is indeed possible, that they have entirely different morals and ethics. Then a person can be a hero to one, and a villain to other at the same time. Arachne is a fine example for that. An other good example would be Sir Garren (https://yafgc.net/comic/0715-thomas-hecklers/). Its like having a country with medieval morals as neighbours: We could point at them, telling how evil they are, torturing others and so, and they would tell how evil we are, letting them witches freely practice their dark rituals. I would bet a lot on that, noone could convince the other, that they are wrong.
TL;DR: Yes, we do have morals and ethics. Yes, according them, Arachne is a terrible person and a villain. But our morals and ethics are not absolute (proven by history), and they do not apply to the Drow, and consequently to Arachne either.
Also: We, as readers, have the luxury to distuingish between "personality" and "character". If you have "good guys" and "bad guys" in your story, you want to have well written characters both for your heroes and your villains. And if they are written well enough, people will like them. Not for their personalities, but for their performance in fulfilling their given roles.
I can provide you a list of villains, who were terrible people, and yet incredibly popular by the audiance…
This seems oddly similar to Lucas and Cadugan when they were stoned. Part of me wishes that that statue could have been the next exhibit over, most of me is glad things turned out the way they did.
Meegs inevitably had this coming, but Celena totes did not deserve this.
Aww…
Well! At least Megs found a ridiculous way to die! I approve of that! ^_^
It has been previously established that people who turn to stone do not die. (1) Lucas and Cadugan were turned back with some magic/alchemy. (2) Stoned cultists are not in the afterlife – the evil goddess can't punish them.
I find this display odd. Surely people realize that this might be two people rather than a statue and that they can be magically saved.
Well… OK, this one is weird. Ignoring that gorgons petrifying other gorgons is highly questionable in the first place, why the hell would Celena do that? Or Meegs for that matter, even if she wasn't another gorgon, petrifying someone who is grappling you is a terrible idea.