This strip, for me, is very depressing and ironic. It seems as if Falahn’s philosophy/ realm of godhood fell apart instead of being obviously interwoven and interdependent. My heart hurts for both the girls and her 🙁
In a sense, it’s the whole Falahn’s Divinity story all over again, in which the original intent becomes corrupted, not from within, but by the masses, who want something (the wrong thing, natch) from each of these girls. The first four panels have nothing to do with who Ch’Thier and Ranna are, but what standards other people are imposing upon them. (and HUGE kudos to you, Rich, for showing the advantages of both, and how ignorance from without corrupts those gifts) And then we have peer groups, who also don’t want Ranna and Ch’Thier to be truly themselves, but simplistic ideals of one facet of themselves, because again it has nothing to do with the siblings. Having picked their equivalent of a street gang (I sympathise; a sense of belonging is essential for teenagers – but a gang is a gang), the followers naturally decide their group is, not better *for them*, but the only *good* one. Incapable of ignoring that dynamic, the girls get poisoned, and opposing viewpoints become rivalry become overt conflict.
The masses originally wanted same from both girls. It was their nature which made some "requests" trivial and others something imposed they fought against.
Only later they started to pick peer groups quickly turning into followers who started with simplification …
However, I agree with both this being the divinity story again and how well Rich shows that both have advantages and both gets corrupted … and yet, the chaos one is more likely to be declared evil.
To be honest, while this does explain the history of the two goddesses, it does nothing to generate sympathy for Ranna. Perhaps it might’ve had her previous actions (from our point of view) been less widespread and abhorrent, but she’s done too much evil, caused too much death and suffering of innocent people that it falls kind of flat for me.
On the other hand, it is making me look at Ch’thier and her followers as a lot less benevolent and altruistic than before.
The fact that Ch’Thier was an obnoxious teenager makes you look at Ages-later Ch’thier and her followers in a worse light? Or the fact that Ranna became a sadist and a tyrant makes you look at Ages-EARLIER, teenaged Ranna as having had no potential to be anything OTHER than monstrous?
Emotional investment in a story is a good thing, and is a sign of a great story teller at the helm. But Kogan, this is not the first time I’ve been a little worried about how ANGRY you seem to get with some of these fictional characters, how badly you want to see them suffer, and how every narrative that involves them must have no nuance beyond "here’s another example of how awful they are."
If it turned out that this whole unfolding tragedy were hurtling headlong toward a catastrophic, apocalyptic hellscape, yet there were still a glimmer of hope to divert course and aim for some sort of cosmic reconciliation of forces instead…would you be insisting that the world burn ANYWAY, because that’s the only way to assure that Ranna and her followers suffer as painfully and as eternally as you want them to?
I’m not angry Mucat, not in the slightest. If I’ve given that impression in the past, then I sincerely apologize as it was not my intent. I am invested in these characters and I love the story that Rich has crafted (or else why would I have followed it for so long, checking daily? :P), and I may say things that looking back sound worse in writing than they did in my head, but such are the joys of internet comment sections.
To answer your other questions, with the new information revealed about Ch’thier and her followers in the past, it does make me look at the current followers and Ch’thier in a different (slightly more critical) light. It gives the impression they’re not the ‘always lawful good’ saints they like to portray themselves as, which is a good thing from a storytelling point of view as it fleshes them out as characters.
As for Ranna and her followers, it’s difficult for me to feel any kind of sympathy for them after seeing everything they’ve done in recent times. For what they could’ve been? Certainly, but they’ve gone too far for that at the moment. In future, perhaps they can be redeemed but that would require a LOT of work making up for all the people they’ve harmed.
And in regards to the "catastrophic, apocalyptic hellscape" scenario, I wouldn’t want that no. I don’t necessarily want Ranna to suffer painfully and eternally (might’ve said that at some point but it’s been 5+ years and I’m stupid.) but I don’t know how Rich is going to give this story a satisfying conclusion. I have faith that it’ll be a good one, but right now I can’t imagine it (and that’s my failing).
To re-iterate, I apologize profusely if I’ve given you or anyone else the impression I’m overly angry over a fictional comic, it’s certainly not my intention.
Looking forwards to the upcoming conclusion and all the strips afterwards rich, thanks for everything so far. 😀
Hahah, no problemo! Look at me, I mispelled "Courteous".
I can see what you’re saying.
You are concerned that I might take a character like Ranna or her followers, who -in the language of literature- needs to receive their comeuppance befitting the horrendous crimes they’ve been committing for -apparently- thousands of years! And then just give them a flashback that says "but they were really good all along", pat them on the back for being misunderstood and let them off the hook with what would appear to be a heartwarming reunion between sisters.
And why would you be concerned about that? Because it happens in movies, books and television A LOT!
I hear that. It’s a valid concern. I don’t blame you for worrying. I hope I don’t disappoint you. Thanks for reading and sticking around all this time, Kogan!
-R
Ah, no worries, Kogan. Sounds like some of the earlier "painfully and eternally" stuff that worried me was meant as hyperbole, which can be one of the hardest things to convey in plain text.
(And to your credit, even back then, you did always clarify when challenged that you meant the people who followed Ranna willingly with open eyes, not her mind-damaged minions, who I think we all hope can still be saved even now.)
I agree that it’s frustrating to see a story you were invested in take an easy "karma houdini" path where not only do the worst war criminals escape consequence in-universe, but the *narrative itself* forgives them effortlessly once they join the good guys. But a decade or more of precedent says we’re in the hands of a better storyteller than that, and no one, in-universe or out, is going to forget the vile things Ranna has done. 🙂
Definitely feel only those who willingly joined in on the Rannite’s activities should face repercussions. Ideally, everyone who was brainwashed, converted, transformed etc. against their will would be restored but I think that’s too much to ask for in reality. 😛
Ranna in a way is a victim of her nature. As a deity, her very personality is shaped by the belief of her followers. Look at how her demonic traits (horns, leathery wings) melted away after Marion reminded her she was just the goddess of chaos, not the goddess of "chaos and cruelty"? And apparently, this also affect their memories because Marion has had to remind them of their true nature several times in the past.
It raises interesting question about how responsible Ranna is for her actions. She is, after all, an extremely susceptible person. So much that you can argue that the post-flashback Ranna is a quite literally different person from the pre-flashback one. In criminal law, people can be judged not to have been responsible for their acts for various reasons, such as insanity or intoxication; both of which can somewhat apply here.
However, this defense definitely does not cover Ranna’s followers; those that were evil from the start and followed her because she was a goddess of cruelty.
Falahn’s philosophy was that you needed balance between Chaos and Order; if anything, the flaws of her two daughters prove that she was right: Falahn of Balance was a better goddess than any of them…
Which makes me wonder… did she really intend to give birth to twin goddesses of Order and Chaos, or was that just a misfire, a mistake…? You would think that Falahn would understand better than anybody else that a person needs balance within themselves, rather than being mostly chaotic or mostly orderly…
This page explains a lot. It is easy to see, how the public opinion generated and increased the rivalry not only between the twins, but also between their followers. Also looking at what kind of people followed which girl, and how they were dealing with each other (suggested by the last panel at least), it is quite clear how could the situation escalate to the point, where Ranna is branded as Evil…
Unfortunately misunderstanding others and/or not wanting to understand (and through that accepting) others are real things, that often lead to unnecessary fights and hatred. I guess these things are getting worse, when actuall goddesses fall victim to them… :/
Nah, thanks for the save t! But the truth is Rich + Humidex 30+ = Brain malfunction and lack of shit-giving. I should have looked ‘courteous’ up because I thought it looked wrong, but I just didn’t have it in me to put effort in it.
I’ve never tried to convert anyone but I’m almost certainly running at someone with your arms out like frankenstein is a bad tactic. Gotta have a pretty low success rate.
Hah! Actually that’s supposed to be the Rannite giving the Ch’Thierian missionary a righteous shove.
Normally western culture depicts the ‘good guys’ and heroes on the left moving right (the way we write) and the villains and antagonists on the right moving left. But I’m left handed and often (accidentally) do my setups the Japanese/Hebrew way. Sorry for the confusion.
I think it’s also the wording of the panel, with "convert" in disdainful quote marks, that adds to the impression it’s the Rannite being assaulted by the Ch’Thierian.
The kind of "RENOUNCE THY SINS, THOT!!" actions you can see in corrupt organizations built on "Order" and would lead to the guy dragging the lady off to a Rannite Conversion Therapy Center or the like.
I think in my case it’s just that my brain read the part about her sending out followers to poach and decided that was what was being depicted in the panel, and just skipped over the "And that never ended well" which was the actual part being depicted.
I understood it perfectly… I think teh actions on the panel could be clearly matched up by the sentence "And that never ended well", especially due to the small break in the text. Also, I found that the person on the left did look like as one of Ranna’s friends/followers on the previous panels. But I must admit, this direction of movement of the heroes/villains never occured to me, so it didn’t disrupt my associations. (That might be due to that I read both western comics and japanese mangas a lot…)
(In reply to Rich’s reply to Nah) Rich- I HAVE to ask- considering the direction of the shove and your comments on set up, how intentional a play on words/concepts was "a righteous shove" ??
As I see it, the Rannite was correct (right, heroic) in trying to get the poacher out of the ranks. So directionally, it’d follow according to Western and/or right-handed centric viewing. That many artists do follow that convention is at times helpful for someone raised on it with confusing scenes. Otoh, I like how it gets switched up at times, adds depth to the story and artwork. And again, thank you for explaining the subliminal connotation 🙂
Oh that was very intended. But from the get-go Ranna was placed in the antagonist’s position not because of the narrative, but because of the narrator’s audience’s expectations. It was done subconsciously, though. But I see how my thought process went.
You showed the dichotomy of ‘One who can do no wrong’ and ‘One who can do no good’ well
Once someone has been branded one thing, *nothing* they can do will change the opinions of others, even if they do or say the same thing as the other, the ‘bad one’ will always be viewed with suspicion and scepticism while the other is praised and doted upon
It’s interesting how it was *Ch’Thier* who tried to steal *Ranna’s* followers, and how they, most likely, will be viewed as ungrateful and troublemakers for daring to resist
It is indeed! Once again, Rich, you are revealing layers upon layers about your characters with depth and development over their lifetimes. Which is as it should be with characters, as it is in life.
I’ve been living in a few different communitites, and my experiences tell me otherwise. More often than not, the "rebellious" people just wanting to have fun, and care little about the "boring and unnecessary traditions and rituals". People, who do care about such things, try to lead them to the "right path" -hence convert them- sometimes even forcibly. But the "wrongdoers" rarely care about them more than as subjects of jokes. They are happy about new members, sure. And they might try to "convert" them to be less stuck up, but only if they come to them. The "rebellious" ones won’t go to the others, because why should they? They are happy as they are, and as many as they are.
To sum it up: Chaotic people are not bothered by the behaviour of orderly people, as long as they don’t try to force their order on them. But orderly people often find it difficult to tolerate chaotic behaviour around them…
Truly the world is not black and white, but only shades of grey.
Doesn’t stop people/humanity as a whole from trying to make things black and white, doesn’t it?
This whole dichotomy also makes me think of how in real life, people like Gandhi and MLK, and the recently-deceased John Lewis trying to espouse pacifism and non-violence are so rare.
Violence unto violence is very easy on one level.
Love/nonviolence is hard. It takes *work*, because you have more to consider than how to get your fist to another person’s face.
Easier to label things as *good*/*evil* and leave it at that–or just hit someone you disagree with.
(Apologies for dragging real-life examples into discussion of a fantasy strip–wasn’t intending to make 1:1 corollaries, just illustrate examples–possibly badly.)
Classic Rich–no easy answers forthcoming for anyone, I suspect. Entertaining? Oh yeah.
I gotta say… this whole chapter is REAAAALLY making one character in particular look absolutely evil, vile, disgusting, worthy of nothing but contempt. And that character would be… Lady Marion.
She KNEW? She knew about all of this, the whole time? Why didn’t she tell Ranna or Ch’thier before they started getting all twisted up? Why would she allow things to get this messed up while she was off judging at fairy events?
Yes, I’ve seen that. But… setting aside the fact that the majority of those millions of years would have been about the evolution of demihumanity, why didn’t she think to regularly spread the truth to the worshippers, as well as to the deities? She’s THAT old, she’s got THAT much experience… if she’s had to deal with this multiple times, shouldn’t she have had backup plans and countermeasures set up in advance?
At the time portrayed in today’s strip, the most concise answer might be…"teenagers." So their mother and their aunt are telling them one thing, while their growing cliques of friends not only look up to them, and egg them on to defiance not ONLY in all the usual human ways, but ALSO by that worshipper-shaping-their-gods mechanism whose outlines we have dimly glimpsed so far.
So who do we EXPECT them to listen to? (And git them damned godlings off my lawn!)
As the ages pass, of course, the answer to that question "So where in the hells was Marion?" must have shifted as well. She has one distinct advantage over the Twins (whom I’m lumping together here as a force for…not evil, but error. Specifically, the "lays waste to civilizations, blights souls and shatters minds, and dooms or damns mortals by the billions" kind of error.) Marion REMEMBERS, while the Twins apparently forget, are reminded, and forget again, who they are. And she’s clearly one of the smartest gods, if not necessarily one of the most powerful. So yeah, part of me wants to say "Dammit, Marion, you could have come up with a plan that works. You had enough time."
But I’m NOT saying that yet, or at least not wedded to it. It’s just one of dozens of things my brain is yelling from the peanut gallery as it enjoys this story. Presumably, we will know more soon than we know now about why Marion couldn’t or didn’t act. (Prime-Directive sort of thing? Potential even-worse catastrophes that we don’t know of? Distracted by a REALLY persistent song in her head?)
And of course, PART of the answer is "This chapter IS Marion, acting. This is what you WANT, brain." So what we really mean is "why couldn’t she act SOONER"…but the history of sapients on this world is so long that ANY action by a quasi-eternal being like Marion provokes that same question. At least this isn’t the story of the people of the Million-and-Forty-Second Age asking, as a swollen, dying sun sets for the last time on the scene of uncountable eons of suffering and stagnation and lost opportunities, "Why didn’t Marion act back in the Eighth Age?"
Maybe this has been Marion’s role all along. Yeah, she’s the first and greatest muse, and she loves the work. But maybe she’s ALSO the one who steps in, cycle after cycle when the stupidity of gods and mortals sends the world spinning out of control toward the final fire…and guides them all back, just BEFORE the damage would have become irreversible.
(Incidentally, I do wonder whether, in some of these long-forgotten "cycles", Ch’Thier was an overt force for evil — the regimented, conformist, Orwellian sort of evil — and Ranna a force for freedom and liberation and joy. And then in another cycle they’d be…well, Ranna and Ch’Thier, as WE know them. Might be that the answer is "No; the world is old, but not old enough for everything that might have happened to happen. Trevor would suspect if it had." But I would wager that, in their younger days that we’re seeing now, they were both CAPABLE of following such a path, whether or not it’s one they actually walked.)
Some say the world will end in fire. Others, in ice. When we substitute "chaos" for "fire" and "law" for "ice," that observation takes on so many fascinating, nuanced, subtle and masterful shades of implication…especially here and now, doesn’t it?
Well, Marion is a muse, and fought not to be a full god fairly strongly, so while she is eternal, and has seen vast history, I don’t get the impression she is very powerful, and she is still tied to her physical reality. She is in the world, and never left it, at least from what we have seen so far, and Ranna and Ch’Thier have not been in their physical bodies for rather a long time (if not that long by Marion’s standards). So she may well not have had an opportunity to "remind" them both of their past and true natures until just now, in this cycle. She did show up pretty much right after Ch’Thier woke up and the twins were available to both be confronted at once in this world. If they did not leave their physical bodies sleeping in previous cycles, she might have been able to intervene earlier and prevent so much tragedy from happening in previous cycles. I imagine we will find out, one way or the other, as this flashback unfolds. 🙂
I imagine it would be quite a challenge, even for Marion, to write a song that might convince either group of believers that they are wrong, and their respective goddesses do not represent what they WANT them to represent. *wry smile* Mortals can be awfully stubborn when it comes to religion.
I’m pretty sure this is well before Lewstrom’s day, though. His civilization fell AFTER Ranna and Ch’Thier had forgotten who they once were (multiple times, perhaps) and lost themselves in their Good and Evil roles.
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This strip, for me, is very depressing and ironic. It seems as if Falahn’s philosophy/ realm of godhood fell apart instead of being obviously interwoven and interdependent. My heart hurts for both the girls and her 🙁
In a sense, it’s the whole Falahn’s Divinity story all over again, in which the original intent becomes corrupted, not from within, but by the masses, who want something (the wrong thing, natch) from each of these girls. The first four panels have nothing to do with who Ch’Thier and Ranna are, but what standards other people are imposing upon them. (and HUGE kudos to you, Rich, for showing the advantages of both, and how ignorance from without corrupts those gifts) And then we have peer groups, who also don’t want Ranna and Ch’Thier to be truly themselves, but simplistic ideals of one facet of themselves, because again it has nothing to do with the siblings. Having picked their equivalent of a street gang (I sympathise; a sense of belonging is essential for teenagers – but a gang is a gang), the followers naturally decide their group is, not better *for them*, but the only *good* one. Incapable of ignoring that dynamic, the girls get poisoned, and opposing viewpoints become rivalry become overt conflict.
Same as it ever was.
Outstanding work, Rich.
t!
The masses originally wanted same from both girls. It was their nature which made some "requests" trivial and others something imposed they fought against.
Only later they started to pick peer groups quickly turning into followers who started with simplification …
However, I agree with both this being the divinity story again and how well Rich shows that both have advantages and both gets corrupted … and yet, the chaos one is more likely to be declared evil.
If by "same" you mean "a homogeneous blandness which can only result in stagnation," we are in definite agreement.
t!
To be honest, while this does explain the history of the two goddesses, it does nothing to generate sympathy for Ranna. Perhaps it might’ve had her previous actions (from our point of view) been less widespread and abhorrent, but she’s done too much evil, caused too much death and suffering of innocent people that it falls kind of flat for me.
On the other hand, it is making me look at Ch’thier and her followers as a lot less benevolent and altruistic than before.
The fact that Ch’Thier was an obnoxious teenager makes you look at Ages-later Ch’thier and her followers in a worse light? Or the fact that Ranna became a sadist and a tyrant makes you look at Ages-EARLIER, teenaged Ranna as having had no potential to be anything OTHER than monstrous?
Emotional investment in a story is a good thing, and is a sign of a great story teller at the helm. But Kogan, this is not the first time I’ve been a little worried about how ANGRY you seem to get with some of these fictional characters, how badly you want to see them suffer, and how every narrative that involves them must have no nuance beyond "here’s another example of how awful they are."
If it turned out that this whole unfolding tragedy were hurtling headlong toward a catastrophic, apocalyptic hellscape, yet there were still a glimmer of hope to divert course and aim for some sort of cosmic reconciliation of forces instead…would you be insisting that the world burn ANYWAY, because that’s the only way to assure that Ranna and her followers suffer as painfully and as eternally as you want them to?
I’m not angry Mucat, not in the slightest. If I’ve given that impression in the past, then I sincerely apologize as it was not my intent. I am invested in these characters and I love the story that Rich has crafted (or else why would I have followed it for so long, checking daily? :P), and I may say things that looking back sound worse in writing than they did in my head, but such are the joys of internet comment sections.
To answer your other questions, with the new information revealed about Ch’thier and her followers in the past, it does make me look at the current followers and Ch’thier in a different (slightly more critical) light. It gives the impression they’re not the ‘always lawful good’ saints they like to portray themselves as, which is a good thing from a storytelling point of view as it fleshes them out as characters.
As for Ranna and her followers, it’s difficult for me to feel any kind of sympathy for them after seeing everything they’ve done in recent times. For what they could’ve been? Certainly, but they’ve gone too far for that at the moment. In future, perhaps they can be redeemed but that would require a LOT of work making up for all the people they’ve harmed.
And in regards to the "catastrophic, apocalyptic hellscape" scenario, I wouldn’t want that no. I don’t necessarily want Ranna to suffer painfully and eternally (might’ve said that at some point but it’s been 5+ years and I’m stupid.) but I don’t know how Rich is going to give this story a satisfying conclusion. I have faith that it’ll be a good one, but right now I can’t imagine it (and that’s my failing).
To re-iterate, I apologize profusely if I’ve given you or anyone else the impression I’m overly angry over a fictional comic, it’s certainly not my intention.
Looking forwards to the upcoming conclusion and all the strips afterwards rich, thanks for everything so far. 😀
Ack! The Heresey! I forgot to capitalize Rich’s name.
Many apologies :O
Hahah, no problemo! Look at me, I mispelled "Courteous".
I can see what you’re saying.
You are concerned that I might take a character like Ranna or her followers, who -in the language of literature- needs to receive their comeuppance befitting the horrendous crimes they’ve been committing for -apparently- thousands of years! And then just give them a flashback that says "but they were really good all along", pat them on the back for being misunderstood and let them off the hook with what would appear to be a heartwarming reunion between sisters.
And why would you be concerned about that? Because it happens in movies, books and television A LOT!
I hear that. It’s a valid concern. I don’t blame you for worrying. I hope I don’t disappoint you. Thanks for reading and sticking around all this time, Kogan!
-R
Ah, no worries, Kogan. Sounds like some of the earlier "painfully and eternally" stuff that worried me was meant as hyperbole, which can be one of the hardest things to convey in plain text.
(And to your credit, even back then, you did always clarify when challenged that you meant the people who followed Ranna willingly with open eyes, not her mind-damaged minions, who I think we all hope can still be saved even now.)
I agree that it’s frustrating to see a story you were invested in take an easy "karma houdini" path where not only do the worst war criminals escape consequence in-universe, but the *narrative itself* forgives them effortlessly once they join the good guys. But a decade or more of precedent says we’re in the hands of a better storyteller than that, and no one, in-universe or out, is going to forget the vile things Ranna has done. 🙂
Definitely feel only those who willingly joined in on the Rannite’s activities should face repercussions. Ideally, everyone who was brainwashed, converted, transformed etc. against their will would be restored but I think that’s too much to ask for in reality. 😛
Ranna in a way is a victim of her nature. As a deity, her very personality is shaped by the belief of her followers. Look at how her demonic traits (horns, leathery wings) melted away after Marion reminded her she was just the goddess of chaos, not the goddess of "chaos and cruelty"? And apparently, this also affect their memories because Marion has had to remind them of their true nature several times in the past.
It raises interesting question about how responsible Ranna is for her actions. She is, after all, an extremely susceptible person. So much that you can argue that the post-flashback Ranna is a quite literally different person from the pre-flashback one. In criminal law, people can be judged not to have been responsible for their acts for various reasons, such as insanity or intoxication; both of which can somewhat apply here.
However, this defense definitely does not cover Ranna’s followers; those that were evil from the start and followed her because she was a goddess of cruelty.
Falahn’s philosophy was that you needed balance between Chaos and Order; if anything, the flaws of her two daughters prove that she was right: Falahn of Balance was a better goddess than any of them…
Which makes me wonder… did she really intend to give birth to twin goddesses of Order and Chaos, or was that just a misfire, a mistake…? You would think that Falahn would understand better than anybody else that a person needs balance within themselves, rather than being mostly chaotic or mostly orderly…
This page explains a lot. It is easy to see, how the public opinion generated and increased the rivalry not only between the twins, but also between their followers. Also looking at what kind of people followed which girl, and how they were dealing with each other (suggested by the last panel at least), it is quite clear how could the situation escalate to the point, where Ranna is branded as Evil…
Unfortunately misunderstanding others and/or not wanting to understand (and through that accepting) others are real things, that often lead to unnecessary fights and hatred. I guess these things are getting worse, when actuall goddesses fall victim to them… :/
Panel 4: curtious = courteous?
curtious = tending to be terse
Nah, thanks for the save t! But the truth is Rich + Humidex 30+ = Brain malfunction and lack of shit-giving. I should have looked ‘courteous’ up because I thought it looked wrong, but I just didn’t have it in me to put effort in it.
I’ve never tried to convert anyone but I’m almost certainly running at someone with your arms out like frankenstein is a bad tactic. Gotta have a pretty low success rate.
Hah! Actually that’s supposed to be the Rannite giving the Ch’Thierian missionary a righteous shove.
Normally western culture depicts the ‘good guys’ and heroes on the left moving right (the way we write) and the villains and antagonists on the right moving left. But I’m left handed and often (accidentally) do my setups the Japanese/Hebrew way. Sorry for the confusion.
Until you specified who was who I kept going back and forth in my perception of who was the Rannite and who was the Ch’Thierian in that last panel.
On one hand, it makes sense for the defender to be shoving the recruiter away, rather than vice versa.
But on the other hand, the lady on the right has MESSIER HAIR!
That’s not messy hair, that’s floofy hair, like Ch’Thier’s
I think it’s also the wording of the panel, with "convert" in disdainful quote marks, that adds to the impression it’s the Rannite being assaulted by the Ch’Thierian.
The kind of "RENOUNCE THY SINS, THOT!!" actions you can see in corrupt organizations built on "Order" and would lead to the guy dragging the lady off to a Rannite Conversion Therapy Center or the like.
I think in my case it’s just that my brain read the part about her sending out followers to poach and decided that was what was being depicted in the panel, and just skipped over the "And that never ended well" which was the actual part being depicted.
I understood it perfectly… I think teh actions on the panel could be clearly matched up by the sentence "And that never ended well", especially due to the small break in the text. Also, I found that the person on the left did look like as one of Ranna’s friends/followers on the previous panels. But I must admit, this direction of movement of the heroes/villains never occured to me, so it didn’t disrupt my associations. (That might be due to that I read both western comics and japanese mangas a lot…)
Can see a lot of the perceptions of Young Ch’thier and Ranna in the perceptions of myself and my older brother.
My Brother being Ch’Thier, me as Ranna.
(In reply to Rich’s reply to Nah) Rich- I HAVE to ask- considering the direction of the shove and your comments on set up, how intentional a play on words/concepts was "a righteous shove" ??
As I see it, the Rannite was correct (right, heroic) in trying to get the poacher out of the ranks. So directionally, it’d follow according to Western and/or right-handed centric viewing. That many artists do follow that convention is at times helpful for someone raised on it with confusing scenes. Otoh, I like how it gets switched up at times, adds depth to the story and artwork. And again, thank you for explaining the subliminal connotation 🙂
Oh that was very intended. But from the get-go Ranna was placed in the antagonist’s position not because of the narrative, but because of the narrator’s audience’s expectations. It was done subconsciously, though. But I see how my thought process went.
You showed the dichotomy of ‘One who can do no wrong’ and ‘One who can do no good’ well
Once someone has been branded one thing, *nothing* they can do will change the opinions of others, even if they do or say the same thing as the other, the ‘bad one’ will always be viewed with suspicion and scepticism while the other is praised and doted upon
It’s interesting how it was *Ch’Thier* who tried to steal *Ranna’s* followers, and how they, most likely, will be viewed as ungrateful and troublemakers for daring to resist
> Outstanding work, Rich.
This is an *amazing* time to be a YAFGC reader.
It is indeed! Once again, Rich, you are revealing layers upon layers about your characters with depth and development over their lifetimes. Which is as it should be with characters, as it is in life.
cram them into each other like a divine Turducken and make them fuse back into Falahn so all this war nonsense can be over and done with.
I’d imagine that Ranna would send out followers to poach from Ch’Thier as well, trying to corrupt them into "loosening up".
I’ve been living in a few different communitites, and my experiences tell me otherwise. More often than not, the "rebellious" people just wanting to have fun, and care little about the "boring and unnecessary traditions and rituals". People, who do care about such things, try to lead them to the "right path" -hence convert them- sometimes even forcibly. But the "wrongdoers" rarely care about them more than as subjects of jokes. They are happy about new members, sure. And they might try to "convert" them to be less stuck up, but only if they come to them. The "rebellious" ones won’t go to the others, because why should they? They are happy as they are, and as many as they are.
To sum it up: Chaotic people are not bothered by the behaviour of orderly people, as long as they don’t try to force their order on them. But orderly people often find it difficult to tolerate chaotic behaviour around them…
Truly the world is not black and white, but only shades of grey.
Doesn’t stop people/humanity as a whole from trying to make things black and white, doesn’t it?
This whole dichotomy also makes me think of how in real life, people like Gandhi and MLK, and the recently-deceased John Lewis trying to espouse pacifism and non-violence are so rare.
Violence unto violence is very easy on one level.
Love/nonviolence is hard. It takes *work*, because you have more to consider than how to get your fist to another person’s face.
Easier to label things as *good*/*evil* and leave it at that–or just hit someone you disagree with.
(Apologies for dragging real-life examples into discussion of a fantasy strip–wasn’t intending to make 1:1 corollaries, just illustrate examples–possibly badly.)
Classic Rich–no easy answers forthcoming for anyone, I suspect. Entertaining? Oh yeah.
Keep it coming!
I gotta say… this whole chapter is REAAAALLY making one character in particular look absolutely evil, vile, disgusting, worthy of nothing but contempt. And that character would be… Lady Marion.
She KNEW? She knew about all of this, the whole time? Why didn’t she tell Ranna or Ch’thier before they started getting all twisted up? Why would she allow things to get this messed up while she was off judging at fairy events?
https://www.yafgc.net/comic/3358-the-muse-steps-up-2/
Check out panel 2 and wonder: How many times has she managed to prevent things from getting this bad in 2 million years?
Yes, I’ve seen that. But… setting aside the fact that the majority of those millions of years would have been about the evolution of demihumanity, why didn’t she think to regularly spread the truth to the worshippers, as well as to the deities? She’s THAT old, she’s got THAT much experience… if she’s had to deal with this multiple times, shouldn’t she have had backup plans and countermeasures set up in advance?
She’s a muse, not a god. There’s only so much she can do.
At the time portrayed in today’s strip, the most concise answer might be…"teenagers." So their mother and their aunt are telling them one thing, while their growing cliques of friends not only look up to them, and egg them on to defiance not ONLY in all the usual human ways, but ALSO by that worshipper-shaping-their-gods mechanism whose outlines we have dimly glimpsed so far.
So who do we EXPECT them to listen to? (And git them damned godlings off my lawn!)
As the ages pass, of course, the answer to that question "So where in the hells was Marion?" must have shifted as well. She has one distinct advantage over the Twins (whom I’m lumping together here as a force for…not evil, but error. Specifically, the "lays waste to civilizations, blights souls and shatters minds, and dooms or damns mortals by the billions" kind of error.) Marion REMEMBERS, while the Twins apparently forget, are reminded, and forget again, who they are. And she’s clearly one of the smartest gods, if not necessarily one of the most powerful. So yeah, part of me wants to say "Dammit, Marion, you could have come up with a plan that works. You had enough time."
But I’m NOT saying that yet, or at least not wedded to it. It’s just one of dozens of things my brain is yelling from the peanut gallery as it enjoys this story. Presumably, we will know more soon than we know now about why Marion couldn’t or didn’t act. (Prime-Directive sort of thing? Potential even-worse catastrophes that we don’t know of? Distracted by a REALLY persistent song in her head?)
And of course, PART of the answer is "This chapter IS Marion, acting. This is what you WANT, brain." So what we really mean is "why couldn’t she act SOONER"…but the history of sapients on this world is so long that ANY action by a quasi-eternal being like Marion provokes that same question. At least this isn’t the story of the people of the Million-and-Forty-Second Age asking, as a swollen, dying sun sets for the last time on the scene of uncountable eons of suffering and stagnation and lost opportunities, "Why didn’t Marion act back in the Eighth Age?"
Maybe this has been Marion’s role all along. Yeah, she’s the first and greatest muse, and she loves the work. But maybe she’s ALSO the one who steps in, cycle after cycle when the stupidity of gods and mortals sends the world spinning out of control toward the final fire…and guides them all back, just BEFORE the damage would have become irreversible.
(Incidentally, I do wonder whether, in some of these long-forgotten "cycles", Ch’Thier was an overt force for evil — the regimented, conformist, Orwellian sort of evil — and Ranna a force for freedom and liberation and joy. And then in another cycle they’d be…well, Ranna and Ch’Thier, as WE know them. Might be that the answer is "No; the world is old, but not old enough for everything that might have happened to happen. Trevor would suspect if it had." But I would wager that, in their younger days that we’re seeing now, they were both CAPABLE of following such a path, whether or not it’s one they actually walked.)
Some say the world will end in fire. Others, in ice. When we substitute "chaos" for "fire" and "law" for "ice," that observation takes on so many fascinating, nuanced, subtle and masterful shades of implication…especially here and now, doesn’t it?
Well, Marion is a muse, and fought not to be a full god fairly strongly, so while she is eternal, and has seen vast history, I don’t get the impression she is very powerful, and she is still tied to her physical reality. She is in the world, and never left it, at least from what we have seen so far, and Ranna and Ch’Thier have not been in their physical bodies for rather a long time (if not that long by Marion’s standards). So she may well not have had an opportunity to "remind" them both of their past and true natures until just now, in this cycle. She did show up pretty much right after Ch’Thier woke up and the twins were available to both be confronted at once in this world. If they did not leave their physical bodies sleeping in previous cycles, she might have been able to intervene earlier and prevent so much tragedy from happening in previous cycles. I imagine we will find out, one way or the other, as this flashback unfolds. 🙂
I imagine it would be quite a challenge, even for Marion, to write a song that might convince either group of believers that they are wrong, and their respective goddesses do not represent what they WANT them to represent. *wry smile* Mortals can be awfully stubborn when it comes to religion.
This might be a far fetched observation, but one of the kids on Ranna’s side look a lot like a fleshy Lewstrom.
I’m pretty sure this is well before Lewstrom’s day, though. His civilization fell AFTER Ranna and Ch’Thier had forgotten who they once were (multiple times, perhaps) and lost themselves in their Good and Evil roles.
Indeed. And Lewstrom is not and has never ever been a Rannite.
Just coincidence (and you weren’t the only one to spot the familiarity, which is all it is)
"Yay, sisters."
Hierarchy. This one always trips me up too, although I mess it up as heirarchy.
Heirarchy: rule by Paris Hilton. 🙂
Wouldn’t these two remember any of this?
Guess we’ll find out…